I’m on the phone with Josh. For those of you who’ve been into my website and have listened to interviews before, this is a really different type of interview. Meaning that with all the other interviews, whether it’s about public speaking anxiety, performance anxiety, pervasive social problems, the other interviews have been the person has really resolved the problem. And that’s the end of the story. In this case, the issue is because of the work that Josh has done, he now has a chance to resolve the problem. When I first met Josh, he didn’t have a chance. And quite frankly, it takes a lot of courage to do this interview, the title of which is 20-year-old evolves from avoidant pathology, and obviously pathology means disease.
So Josh, thank you very much for participating. Do you remember what was going on when we first met? I do. I remember I wasn’t very social, and I didn’t really like my parents, I didn’t respect them. I couldn’t really talk to them about anything, anything really. Yes, and when we first met, therapy was the last thing that you wanted to be part of. When we were on the phone, you’re in another state from me, I’m here in Long Island. You basically were saying you didn’t want to talk, you didn’t have anything to say. What else was going on in your life? I wasn’t going to school, I was just working, and I wasn’t working enough hours. And my dad was really pushing me to work about 40 hours a week, and I didn’t want to do that because he was making me do that in my mind.
Anything he made me do, I just didn’t want to do. Can you elaborate on that? Why? Explain. Just because it’s up, he wanted to do, I thought he was just pushing it for me just to be a better person, but I didn’t really think of him as a good guy. At that time, I didn’t really respect him, and I didn’t think anything of it, and I just did the opposite. And may I ask what was going on with Mother? She’s been working. She hadn’t very much time to spend with us, and she’s been making me run errands for her all the time, pretty much picking up dinner for the entire family. She was picking up my younger siblings from school, and then sometimes, yeah, just they may be picking up groceries because she never buys groceries for the house.
Okay, so you had a situation. Mom and Dad had their conflict, and you were basically angry at both parents. Is that right? Yeah, they taught me where I was, so they were. So we had a fair amount of what we would call dysfunction in the family, and one day your father heard me at a lecture, and that he initiated treatment, and before I interacted with you, I did a number of sessions with your parents, and this is where it really gets complicated, trying to get them on the same team, because I was explaining to them as I do with all my patients, there are two types of people who have this kind of problem, those with initiative, and those without initiative. Initiative doesn’t mean ability, it means the motivation to start up. You certainly did not have initiative when we started treatment, and then what happened was to further complicate the situation.
Mom had her own issues, and she bailed out of treatment, which really caused some stress, and it took a while before you would even talk to me. So let’s go back, you’re angry at your father, you’re angry at your mother, you’re working, Dad wants you to be more responsible. It was hard for you to communicate, just describe more what was going on in your mind, please. I just don’t know how to do anything, if I like, the whole world kind of hated me, and I kind of hated it, and I just kind of wanted to stay at home, sit in my room, just do nothing, not work, not do anything, but rather just sleep the rest of my day, and so would you say you were depressed? Yes. So you’re in your room, you just want to sleep, you’re doing what, playing computer games, what were you doing?
Either playing games, watching TV, or just on my computer. Okay, so when you were doing this, and when you didn’t want any part of help, and the last thing you wanted to do was to comply to what your parents wanted, what was going on in your mind, where’d you think you were going? I don’t know where I was going at that point. Okay, but try to, listen, I understand this is hard what we’re doing right now, and there are a lot of parents of people your age who are totally helpless, and do not know what to do at all, because they don’t understand what’s going on in their adult child’s mind. Okay, so you’re having a hard time functioning, you just want to sleep, you want to escape, and I know I’m busting your chops here.
What else were you thinking? That was just hopeless really. The that I didn’t think I could get better, and that I kind of believe I didn’t want to get better, and things wouldn’t get any better, because just how they were. My parents being divorced, and my dad just constantly talking down to me, and my mom just making me run around, do errands, and it wasn’t in the best comfortable state of mind. And the last thing that you wanted to talk about was school, right? Yeah. Can you explain why? I thought school was only an obligation to my dad, just because of the fact that, you know, when I was in high school, he made such a big deal out of it.
And I just didn’t like it at all. I hated high school. I honestly just hated schooling in general. It was just a big deal out of it. I ended up hating it, and never wanting to go back. And it’s just been a terrible experience for me. Would you say you had a lot of performance anxiety about school? Yes. Can you explain a little? Yeah, I never did my homework. I never really engaged in class, just because of the fact that I didn’t want to, and I mean, I felt like I was doing it for my dad. I don’t know why I’d do it for him anymore. I guess, I don’t know, I just kind of felt lost in high school.
Are you clear on what you were angry about? I thought I was angry at my parents. Yeah. Keep going. I think I was angry with myself, and I’m doing a whole lot. And I think taking on my parents was just an excuse. I mean, some of the things they did to me wasn’t right, but it’s not like I can be angry at them forever. You know, you can only be angry at someone for so long. What was going on socially when I first met you? Nothing. And I didn’t have a whole lot of friends. Couldn’t really talk to people. I had one very good friend I can talk to all the time, but he’s living in East Lansing.
He’s going to Michigan State. Okay, then what happened? I forget exactly when it was, but I mean, we haven’t had a therapy session now in about four or five months. But there was a time that there was a turnaround. You went from being, then again, I appreciate your courage for doing this. It’s very special what you’re doing. But you went from totally non-compliant, totally non-cooperative, angry, staying in your bed, not being reasonable, not wanting to talk. And then there was a change. You became really reasonable. Here’s where I really want the listeners to hear what you have to say. Can you please explain what went on so that you could transition? I mean, really, I guess it was just how life was going for me.
I mean, when I started working, I started working two jobs. And both of them I picked up hours. I got promoted at One of them. So I got higher pay. And they’d be so better about myself. And people would make me feel good. Like, I was actually worth something to them. So I was a little happier. I made some new friends, which helped me get out of my social awkwardness. And more I became a little happier. And they kind of helped me with my parents. And I kind of understood because I’ve been, you were doing these therapy sessions. And yeah, and I guess things got better. Okay. Talk about, that’s very important what you just said. You were starting to feel like you were worth something.
People I worked with, I talked to you who I actually hung out with were being nice to me. And they were saying, I talked to them on my issues. And they said, it’s something they complained about. We’re in the same boat kind of. It’s just like, you know, whatever, just get past it. And they go, you know, we’ve dealt with this before. And it usually ends in the same way that we’re just, you know, we’re still here. So I’ve kind of gotten to that level. I’m just like, well, I’m still here and I’m better. I’m, I’m not going to do anything. So best do something. I’m not just here to do nothing. Okay. Now, you hated the idea of interacting therapeutically with me at one point. This is another very key question here.
And then I believe if I’m reading the situation accurately, you actually evolved to the point that you kind of appreciated the therapy sessions. Can you explain the change? Well, I’m happier and lighter mood than I was like a year ago. No, I mean, the change with when you, you started to have a better attitude and you actually embraced what we were doing versus trying to get away from it. I think you had, you were saying once if I remember correctly, you were in your room and you were thinking one day and you kind of had some kind of an aha moment. Am I right or wrong? I think so. Do you remember? No, really. Okay.
But just describe the change in terms of your wanting to have some therapy versus not wanting at all. I guess I felt like talking to you was nice and it just felt like there was a person actually listening to me compared to just somebody who was just siting there talking to me rather than, you know, actually hear me out, making me speak. And I kind of just grew on me because nobody ever wanted to hear my opinion and, you know, I was shut down immediately. So where are you at now? What’s going on in your life? I’m still currently working my two jobs and thinking about taking classes up again. I’m just trying to figure out everything as I go along. I mean, you know, I’m in a firm spot, but I mean, I’m in a happier place of the state of mind.
So hopefully that will help me, you know, get into a better spot in life. Do you have any kind of vision of where you want to go? At least out of our parent’s house somewhere, maybe out of state. I mean, that’s just a vision that’s probably in the next five or six years, really. Are you considering school at all or are there kinds of training or not? I’ve considered it, yeah. You think you’ll do it or? I think so. So can I interpret that as, I mean, I don’t want to lead you too much here, but, you know, does that mean that you have somewhat more control of your anxiety so you can take on these learning challenges? I think so, yes. What else can you share with the audience again, you know, related to the transition here?
Again, the title, the title of this interview, 20, how old are you now, Josh? 20. Okay. 20 year old emerges. You emerged. I mean, can you just, you know, as we wrap this up, can you put the final touches on describing, you know, how you feel now and what’s going on in your mind now as compared to, say, a year and a half ago? Well, I don’t feel sad anymore and I just feel, you know, happier, like, lighter in mood because there’s nothing to be, like, angry about anymore because I’ve always woken up and just kind of had the presence that my dad or my mom was around and, well, you know, how can I get around them so they’re not going to talk to me? Instead, I call them seeing what they’re doing and I just go about my day, whether it be to go to work or do some other activity, like, going to the gym at all.
So I mean, I just keep myself busy to the point where I don’t even have to worry about it. If, last question here, let’s just say that there was another 20 year old listening to this who was in a similar position to you or most more probably parents of a 20 year old who would be listening to this. What advice would you have for these people? I guess ask them what they really want to do in life and if they don’t know, then I guess help them out just because of the fact that I don’t think my parents asked me that. They did help me. I don’t know if it took a very direct approach about it, but I mean, I think a direct approach would be necessary just because of the fact that they needed to feel happy about themselves and maybe doing some things would make them happier, like working or doing anything really.
All right. The last point that I would like to make here again, thank you very much, it takes a lot of courage and I know you’re not totally where you want to be, but at this point you have a chance and reality, logic says that you wouldn’t have this chance if your father, whom you had a lot of issues with at the beginning, didn’t initiate treatment because that’s the last thing that you were going to do. So as much conflict as you had with him, I mean, I think he did a good thing, right? Yeah. Josh, thank you very much for sharing. Thank you.
