Public Speaking Anxiety & Fear of Being Noticeably Nervous: Mind Surgery for High Performers

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Public Speaking Anxiety Resolved by "Gifted Salesman"

Robert, a gifted salesman, describes recurring public speaking anxiety that intensified before important boardroom presentations. Despite continually confronting his fears, his coping mechanisms stopped working. Treatment combined deeper emotional “core work” with a paradox-based adrenaline control technique, helping him successfully manage his performance anxiety.

Episode Overview

What This Episode Is About

“Robert,” a gifted salesman, describes a recurring cycle of public speaking anxiety that became progressively worse each time he faced another speaking challenge. As he approached a boardroom or anticipated a presentation, previous negative experiences combined with anxiety about the upcoming event, creating what he describes as a spiraling effect. Because his speaking responsibilities occurred only every two or three months, anxiety had considerable time to build between events. Importantly, Robert did not simply avoid every challenge—he continued forcing himself to speak—but the coping mechanisms he had developed were no longer working. By the time he sought treatment, he felt he had reached a breaking point. His treatment involved both practical adrenaline-control techniques and deeper core emotional work, including exploration of what he describes as his “walk of shame.” Robert discusses learning to accept and work with the physiological energy of performance rather than continually battling it, helping him interrupt the escalating cycle of anticipatory anxiety.

At a Glance

This podcast is best for:

CEOs, executives, clinicians, attorneys, students and performers whose careers depend on speaking — and who have found that competence alone did not resolve the fear.

Episode Details:

min,

sec

January 8, 2025

Full Transcript

This episode's transcript:

[00:00:00]

I’m sitting here with Robert. Robert has a very interesting story to share that I think will be of amazing benefit to the listeners. Robert, thank you very much for being part of this program. Can you share with our listeners your story starting with what you were thinking, what was going through your mind when you contacted me originally? Well, when I originally called you, I was having pretty bad experiences, recurring experiences with anxiety that I was not able to conquer on my own. Every time that I would go into a public speaking type event, I would have more anxiety it seemed than I had the time before because I would take the anxiety of not performing the last time plus the anxiety of just the actual event and it would continue to multiply more and more and more. So when I contacted you, I felt I was at a breaking point and I just absolutely had to do something. I had to change what I felt was the cycle and figure out some sort of solution.

[00:01:13]

So you were in a position that necessitated you’re doing a lot of public speaking? Right. Well, it wasn’t as though I did public speaking every week or every month. It would come about, say, every two months, every three months, which was actually more of a problem. I had more time to let the anxiety build up and it would build up within me. So by the time that I went to do the public speaking event, I was so keyed up. So I had so much anxiety that it was extremely difficult to perform in the way that I wanted to. What did the anxiety feel like? What was overwhelming? I mean, it comes from like my core and it’s interesting. I would feel comfortable. Let’s say I was going to my company to public speak and I had to speak in a boardroom.

[00:02:05]

I would feel comfortable in my car. I would feel comfortable driving down, going into the building, getting into my office. But as I would approach the boardroom, I would go into a spiraling effect that would intensify as I got closer to the boardroom. To the point, there were times when I literally didn’t know if I was going to be able to public speak at all once I got in the room. The interesting thing was my way of dealing with it personally before I talked with you was to just continue attacking it. I would never run. That was the thing. I had all these different mechanisms that I would come up with to try to pull me away from having to do an event that I felt would be very bad. But if I was ever put in a position where I had to public speak and it was going to be a scenario that I didn’t like, I would never run from it. I would always go for it and put myself in the arena, let’s say. There were times when it was very bad, it was very embarrassing. It was humiliating because I could not speak the way that I wanted to. Were you experiencing physical symptoms? Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, my hands would tremble. I would sweat a bit. Without question, my voice would shake dramatically at some points. The interesting thing is, people that just saw me five minutes before they came by my office or saw me walk in, would see me completely calm. Then I would go into a board room or have to go do some sort of public speaking. I would go into what I called, as I said earlier, the spiral effect. It would

[00:03:49]

just spiral out of control. So the point that I was public speaking at my company, it could be pretty devastating because people of course would come up afterwards and say, what happened? Where did you go from being fine when I saw you a moment ago to having such difficulty in the room? You mean people would actually be able to observe the anxiety? Oh yeah. It was not only in my head. I had, I mean, the issue and the problem that I’ve resolved did come from within me, but I would take it so far that I would have physical symptoms that people within the room would absolutely notice. No doubt. What was the thinking that was the component of your anxiety? What were the thoughts going through your mind when you were experiencing the panic? For me, it was this reoccurring discouragement, depression of not being able to beat it, not being able to figure out a way to conquer this. And I also have a bit of perfection that has always plagued me as well. And it’s interesting. The things that we’ve talked about have helped me kind of put those into categories where I can kind of downplay those and see more of perhaps the logic that I used to. But the problem would be I would take it into a negative negative spin. And that’s all I would hear in my head was, you know, you’re going to try to do this again. You’re going to fail. Everybody’s going to see that you’re having trouble public speaking. It’s just the same old cycle. You can’t get past it. Why did you think you could do it

[00:05:30]

this time? What makes this any different? And the spiral would just basically take over. And what was the turning point that made you say you had to get some help? I started with a new company. And all I had to do was just go in. I mean, I had gone through the interview process and had done great. And this was very typical of me. I do real well in small groups or one on one. So I could make it through the interview process. I’m a salesperson. I could go through the sales process. But public speaking in a group of say 15 to 20 is where I really, really have a hard time speaking in front of groups of two to 300. Believe it or not, was not a problem because I felt very disassociated with the audience. I felt the distance, but it was something about bringing 15 people in a room altogether where everything is quiet and now, okay, I’ve got to speak right now and perform. I would bring so much performance anxiety into that I would put all of these huge hurdles, all this baggage I would take in that I had to be perfect, that I had to speak well that I wasn’t going to be nervous this time.

[00:06:44]

And the turning point and why I contacted you was I had gone into a company and all I had to do was go in and basically introduce myself and say what I had done and where I had come from. And it was really, really tough to get through it. And I thought, all right, I’ve got to call somebody and find somebody that can help me understand why I can do this at my house alone. I can certainly introduce myself and say who I am and talk about what I’ve done. But you put me in a group of 15 people and many times I would have almost an anxiety attack at some points to try to get through it. So in a nutshell, you would say that your problem was how severe in terms of its overall impact. It was extremely because you can’t you can’t operate and try to avoid ever public speaking in situations that make you nervous. I mean, as I mentioned, mine was inconsistent. Sometimes I would public speak very well. I would get a bit of a confidence level going. And then I would be presented with perhaps 15 people in a room. I would feel a bit of hostility and I absolutely could not do it. So I would think to myself, all right, I’ve put together these avoidance techniques and how I can avoid scenarios that I don’t like scenarios that I don’t think I’ll do well with realistically how long how long can you do that? You can’t do that. You can’t control the entire environment. You can’t control your entire work scenario or even your social scenario. People

[00:08:25]

coming over or getting together with family, there’s going to be times that you have to be put in a situation that’s going to make you uncomfortable. So I felt I have to address the issue and not the environment or the scenario that I don’t like. I have to address the issue. Where would you say that you are at presently with this problem? I feel very comfortable in getting through it now as opposed to what I used to. I categorize things and I think about things from much more of a logical standpoint. If you talk with anybody that doesn’t have any social anxiety problems or have never even dealt with it, it’s funny because they’ll be like, well, what’s the problem? Just go in and talk or whatever the issue may be. All you have to do is go in and do it. You can do it. But to the person that suffers from it, it’s just overwhelming to have to do it. So where I’m at right now is a lot of that logic that I would hear from my friends and family members that would say, look, I know you can do this. Why are you even thinking that you can’t? A lot of that logic has been accepted by me, which is where it needed to be accepted. And now I feel more comfortable in going in and speaking, introducing myself.

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Jonathan Berent, LCSW

Psychotherapist & Author — Social Anxiety and Performance Anxiety

Jonathan Berent, L.C.S.W., A.C.S.W., is a psychotherapist who has been practicing since 1978. He has created the Berent Treatment Method for Social Anxiety, which is the result of his clinical work with thousands of individuals of all ages with social anxiety since 1978. He has extensive clinical experience with avoidance and dependance personality disorder, and is the author of Work Makes Me Nervous: Overcome Anxiety and Build the Confidence to Succeed (Wiley, 2010), Beyond Shyness: How to Conquer Social Anxieties (Simon & Schuster, 1992), and Social Anxiety: The Untold Story, which is a training course for mental health professionals in using the Berent Method to treat social anxiety. (Andrew Kukes Foundation, 2011).

SocialAnxiety.com, has served millions of unique visitors as a multimedia clearinghouse for patients, parents, and fellow mental health professionals in search of articles, educational materials, and books on social anxiety and related subjects. His library of clinical interviews appears to be the most documented clinical success with social anxiety.

Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW)
40+ years in private practice
Author of "Beyond Shyness" and "Work Makes Me Nervous"
Featured on national television and radio
Specialist in performance and social anxiety

Guest Speaker

Frequently Asked Questions

Common Questions About Social Anxiety Treatment

What is anticipatory anxiety?

Anticipatory anxiety is obsessive worry and hypervigilance that occurs before an upcoming presentation, meeting, social interaction, or other feared event. It may begin hours, days, or even weeks beforehand. People can repeatedly imagine what might go wrong, creating significant anxiety before the actual event has even occurred. This is the result on past episodes.

Why can the anticipation of public speaking be worse than the presentation itself?

Anticipatory anxiety gives the mind repeated opportunities to imagine negative outcomes. A person may mentally rehearse making mistakes, becoming visibly nervous, forgetting what to say, or being negatively evaluated. This prolonged worry becomes deeply ingrained and can be extremely draining and may cause more distress than the actual speaking event.

How does adrenaline affect public speaking anxiety?

Adrenaline is part of the body’s normal response to a perceived challenge or threat. It can increase heart rate, alertness, energy, perspiration, and other physical sensations. The goal is not to eliminate adrenaline, which would be an unrealistic expectation. Learning how to experience, regulate, and channel that energy without interpreting it as dangerous is critical for resolving performance anxiety. The adrenaline control technique is “surfing” which is based on the paradox of adrenaline acceptance.

What is performance anxiety?

Performance anxiety occurs when a person experiences excessive anxiety in situations where they believe their performance is being observed or evaluated. It can occur during formal presentations, meetings, interviews, sales calls, public speaking, professional interactions, athletic performance, and other situations involving pressure or scrutiny. The core dynamic for healing is differentiating between “performance” and “personhood”.

What is the best way to overcome chronic public speaking and performance anxiety?

By investing in a treatment methodology that teaches psycho-physiological(mind-body) and self-regulation skills. The goal is to channel adrenaline into effective power. To accomplish this the system of F-physiology A-behavior T-thinking E-emotions needs to be customized to the individual.

Take the Next Step

You Do Not Have to Manage This Alone

Public speaking anxiety, performance anxiety, and social anxiety respond to treatment. If this episode described your experience, a conversation is the great next step.