I’m on the phone with Carol from Florida. Thank you for joining us for this interview. You’re welcome. Carol, when you first contacted me, what was going on in your life? Why did you make the call? What did you need help with? I think I was going through a depressing time because of the fact that I very much knew that I wanted to go back to school, that there were other things that I wanted to do in my life. And I knew what was holding me back was my extreme fear of public speaking. And I’ve dealt with it all my life, and I think when we wound up moving down here, I just became really aware of how much of a prisoner it made me in my life.
And I was just so tired of that. And I just wanted such freedom from it. And I really felt myself going into a depression. So I had gone to one of the local stores that had picked up a book to read, and it was book written by you. And when I read it, I just felt there was nobody else that I would be able to talk to, except for you. I just felt very alone in the world. I didn’t even feel that going to any other therapist would make a difference. It had to be somebody, as I said when I read the book, that I just really felt understood as I was reading it. I said, this is me. This is somebody who really understands what’s going on in my life.
Now, part of your problem was the specific symptoms of blushing and sweating, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. More of the blushing than anything. I mean, to me, what I called that bright, red burning face. That was there larger than life for everybody to see. How many times I said, I wish it could have been just sweating something that I felt I could have covered up by wearing black clothes or something. But no, no, it had to be the big, bright, red face. How was this affecting you? It was getting me to avoid virtually anything that would put me in the spotlight when I felt that there would be any kind of attention focused on me. And as I began to move through life, I realized that it didn’t have to be many times being in a room filled with a lot of people. Sometimes it was just a small gathering of people, maybe three or four, but it became more being aware that the focus of attention was on me.
That’s when it flooded to me the fact that they’re looking at me. If it really didn’t matter, if it was, you know, a matter of 500 people, 100 people or five people, it was, I really was so, so aware that that focus of attention was just on me. People’s eyes were on me. What interpretation were you putting on the blushing? Actually, on the blushing, I guess a lot of things, but my main feeling was that I was imperfect, that somehow I was weak. By people seeing this blushing red face, it was almost aware that they could see that I was frightened and in that fear was an imperfection, that they were judging me, as kind of like, oh, look at this silly woman. Look at her. She’s blushing. So therefore, he’s weak. She’s imperfect, disregard anything she says. As crazy as that may sound.
Carol, I have used many times your story when I do a radio or a TV show, and I say, in my first session with this woman, a successful woman, homemaker, mother of two, happened to be an ovarian cancer survivor, and she said to me, with very genuine words, Jonathan, I’d rather be back in chemotherapy than speak in front of a group. Now, I was quoting you. Could you just elaborate a little? Yeah, that was a point where, and it still seems bizarre to me now, all this time looking back. It’s very hard to believe that, but it was. I mean, cancer was something that shook me to my core, and something so very frightening that I went through. Yet, it amazed me that I really did feel that way.
The fear was so great of having to stand up or speak in front of people and again have all that attention placed on me that I really felt. All I could relate to was going to another time in my life when I had something that really feared me and terrified me, and it was the cancer. And I have to admit that that was the truth at that time. I felt that if I had to be terrified of something, I would rather be terrified of the cancer because there was no judgment placed on me. It was just me, myself, going through the fight of my life. Verse, going through something very terrifying that other people were a part of.
Other people actively could see. I mean, you take chemo, you’re in your hospital room kind of by yourself, and there’s no pressure, no judgment, no expectations, no nothing put on you. But it isn’t the same with social anxiety. As I’ve kind of learned, I guess that’s what it’s called. You know, Carol, I really appreciate your sharing this material because it is so intense. And you know, when I tell that story, I often question, do people really believe me when I share that? Where would you say that you are currently at with your social anxiety in general and be blushing specifically? I’d probably say at this point, just because of the fact I’m a pessimist, so I will never give numbers like 90 or 100. But I’d say I’m probably 85% better, and I have learned that extra 15% that I have of that nervous jitters or whatnot before.
I feel if I’m going to be speaking or with around a group of people, I realize that’s just basic, nervous energy. I can’t tell you how good it feels at this point to know that I can make choices in my life because I want to. If I want to go back to school tomorrow and go on for another degree or take a promotion at a job or whatever that requires, you know, interactions with large groups of people, I really feel 85% better now that I know I’d be able to step up and do it.
